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Scrooge MacDuck

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  • I was born on May 11
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  • Hi there!

    Sorry for replacing the category without a reason! I wanted to check to see if you were around.

    In your edit summary, you compare The Spoily Brats to Zombies in the Snow, but the two are not comparable. Zombies in the Snow is an in-universe media object, which the audience never even gets to see in its entirety. It owes its entire existence to the Sebald Code, and we hear little of it after it has served its purpose.

    The Spoily Brats, on the other hand, is a media item created separately from (yet in tandem with) ASOUE. It is a completed thing, and could be marketed separately from the original book series. In fact, the whole story does exist, separately from the books, at the website included in the article. So, The Spoily Brats is not quite an in-universe story. At the same time, it definitely relates to ASOUE, and was created for it. Therefore, the comic is both a story related to ASOUE, and non-canon. There's my rationale.

    With all due respect, I eagerly await your response.

    Rue.taidem54 (talk) 22:32, June 29, 2020 (UTC)

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    • Ah, thank you! And maybe sorry for being so curt in my own edit rationale.

      I sort of see your reasoning, but not wholly. It is very much the case that franchises will sometimes release spinoffs which, instead of being set in the world of the main story, are supposed to be facsimiles of books which exist in-universe. To plunder a clear-cut example from a contemporary franchise to ASoUE, our more mainstream cousins of the Harry Potter Wiki do not consider the Tales of Beedle the Bard tie-in book to be "non-canonical", even though the stories themselves clearly didn't happen in Harry James Potter's universe.

      Let's say (not that it would happen, but let's say) that as bonus content for a rerelase of The Bad Beginning, a booklet purported to be the full script of Al Funcoot's The Marvelous Marriage were released. If the intent were clearly that this is the script as it was held by Violet Baudelaire, then why shouldn't that be a canonical account of what that script was like? Even though it would "exist as a complete story" and be ostensibly a separate narrative from the main series?

      If there is evidence that a comic strip called The Spoily Brats exists in the world of the Baudelaire children, and official ASoUE channels then release "the full Spoily Brats strip", then I see no reason not to assume we are in a similar situation, where the webcomic in the real world can be taken as a canonical depiction of an object within the Averse. 

      If such evidence didn't exist, mind you, then I'd argue the burden of proof would be on you, in a completely different way, to prove that the narrative of Spoily Brats doesn't actually happen to take place in the same fictional universe as the Baudelaires' misadventures, even if the characters happen never to meet.

      …But I'll spare you that, because again, I think the authorial intent is fairly clear that we are dealing with "a canonical depiction of in-universe fiction". The circumstances of TSP, as being depicted as part of the "in-universe theming" of "penny dreadful" editions of the original books, as we might expect them to be published within the Averse, are outstandingly similar to The Pony Party!, which is well-understood to be in-universe fiction, and, indeed, was eventually confirmed as such (within the Netflixverse at least). 

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    • Hello again!

      I acknowledge your point regarding spin-off literature, and, were The Spoily Brats such a piece, I would agree with you entirely. However, as with your point regarding Zombies in the Snow, I feel you are drawing a false analogy.

      If, as you say, a script for The Marvelous Marriage were released as bonus content for a re-release of The Bad Beginning, it would indeed be a canonical re-production of the script: the script would be canon. But The Marvelous Marriage, like Zombies in the Snow, is mentioned in The Bad Beginning. Its existence in the world of ASOUE is canonically confirmed. This is not so with The Spoily Brats.

      If I understand you, your point is that The Spoily Brats' appearance in the "penny dreadful" reprint of the ASOUE books grants them that authenticity, but there is no evidence to support that claim. In fact, one could easily interpret it on an entirely meta-narrative level: ASOUE and The Spoily Brats are both fiction, in a universe in which they both exist, in which they could be presented together in a single series of volumes. (That universe would be reality.)

      Leaving that aside, there is no evidence to suggest that The Spoily Brats exists in the narrative universe of A Series of Unfortunate Events. No "official ASoUE channels" have released "the full Spoily Brats strip": The author and illustrator, Michael Kupperman, released them on his personal website when the rights to the work reverted to him. A Series of Unfortunate Events and The Spoily Brats work together, but they are not related. The comic strip is never mentioned in the actual books; it appears only in the Cornucopian Cavalcade as a separate work. Therefore, it cannot be considered canon.

      Like you, I have only the best interests of this wiki at heart.

      Rue.taidem54 (talk) 23:19, June 29, 2020 (UTC)

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    • Although your point that the "penny dreadful" edition could place itself within a third universe, where both book series exist is well-taken… I feel as though Occam's Razor disagrees. And that third wolrd would be neither the real world nor the Averse, because there is if nothing else a layer of fiction where we are asked to believe that a full print version of Spoily Brats exists, and and we were, to boot, asked to do so even before so much as the webcomic version existed. The thing is, I still don't see how this differs from The Pony Party, or, to be more exact, from The-Pony-Party-as-we-knew-it-before-Netflix. I don't think its status and "canonicity" (as it were) has ever been in doubt, even before Netflix gave additional weight to the "in-universe fiction" idea.

      Broadly speaking, my position is that it makes sense to consider that all theming of the various editions of ASoUE places itself within the narrative device where Lemony Snicket is a real person who is publishing these edited accounts of real events. If the theming of a new edition (like the penny dreadfuls or the Unauthorized Autobiography) makes the book up to look like another type of book it really is, then said theming is in all likelihood setting themselves within that tradition, no different from those times Daniel Handler presents himself as Lemony Snicket's agent and good personal friend, keeping up the charade, as it were.

      But then, of course, there remains, as I said, the option that The Spoily Brats is intended to take place within the Averse, even if (for rights reason) the characters of the two series never actually meet. It's possible. Why not? There isn't any hard evidence that it takes place in the Averse, but there isn't any hard evidence that it doesn't, either. I'd generally hold that a story should be considered canonical until proven otherwise, not the reverse.

      If we still disagree, I think the best course of action might be simply to try and get in touch with the author, and ask Kupperman himself if he intended for the comic strips to be read as existing within the Averse, as another work published by the same printing house as the research of Lemony Snicket, Volunteer. If Kupperman thinks differently, I will of course defer to such a pronouncement. 

      P.S.: Apologies about the ill-chosen phrasing of my "official ASoUE channels" — I meant, officially licensed to publish such a story as they are publishing. If the author owns the rights to TSP, then the author's website is an "official ASoUE channel" in the same way that BBV Productions are an "official Doctor Who channel", if you will. The point is, this was an official release, not fanfiction (nor the spurious publication of unreleased production material, as was the case for the original Handler script for the movie, the one with a pregnant Kit). 

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  • Wellcome to the Lemony Snicket Wiki, How are you doing?
    Screenshot 2020-03-27 at 7.13.08 PM

    Why, Hello there

    ((I don't know why I gave you a photo of The Cakesniffer)) I hope you have a WONDERFUL time here.

    -2019Klaus564

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